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What’s the biggest difference between Congressman Ron Paul and Governor Gary Johnson? It’s not ideological, although there are some key and important distinctions on their positions.
The biggest difference is money. How much they have and how they’ve spent it.
For Gary Johnson, his whole campaign has been a shoestring affair. Having raised only several hundred thousand dollars in pursuit of the Presidency, he’s spending the limited funds he has on travel and critical campaign operations. Calling the Johnson campaign “budget conscious” would be an accurate descriptor. They know their resources are tight, the money they have raised has not come easily and they seem legitimately dedicated to stretching their campaign-dollar to the maximum.
The same cannot be said for Ron Paul’s latest bid for the Republican nomination or the myriad organizations he and his family members have spawned to fleece the “true believers” of their every last dime. People don’t just support Ron Paul, many are personally obsessed with the man. They give and give, and then give some more. In fact, it often seems like Ron Paul’s role model is less Barry Goldwater than something 
closer to L. Ron Hubbard, the science fiction author and founder of the cult-like cash-cow known as Scientology.
It would be one thing if the Paul campaign spent their money as wisely as the Johnson campaign. There’s no telling how much could have been accomplished with the tens of millions of dollars that the Ron Paul machine has generated over the last half-decade. Unfortunately, we will never know what might have been.
Recently we learned that Jesse Benton, Ron Paul’s bumbling campaign manager and grandson-in-law, had been paid a staggering $586,616 by the Paul campaign and associated organizations. That number has likely grown by, at least, tens of thousands of dollars since it was first reported. Gary Johnson could have financed his entire campaign thus far on Benton’s salary alone!
The problem goes beyond just Benton, who recently enraged Paul supporters when he put out a series of statements to the public that explained a shift in campaign strategy away from active campaigning in upcoming primaries. He explained this was a way to conserve campaign resources. The press interpreted this as Paul suspending his campaign and the announcement likely cost Paul a significant number of delegates in the Arkansas, Kentucky and Texas primaries. It also signaled a desire to preserve relations with the Romney campaign and the GOP establishment, likely with the hopes of protecting the future career of Kentucky Senator Rand Paul.
Some of the Paul diehards have suggested that Benton “acted alone” in making these campaign policy shifts and in setting his own salary, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. This is Ron Paul’s standard operating procedure: his family gets paid, every time.
Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) has noted that Representative Paul was one of the worst offenders in the U.S. House for using campaign and PAC money to enrich family members. In CREW’s recent survey of 2008 and 2010 spending by Congressional candidates, they noted: “Rep. Paul’s campaign committee, Committee to Re-elect Ron Paul, paid salaries to his
daughter, his grandson, his daughter’s mother-in-law, his granddaughter, his grandson-in-law, and another relative. In addition, his campaign committee reimbursed the congressman and several other relatives and paid his brother’s accounting firm. Finally, Rep. Paul’s leadership political action committee (PAC), Liberty PAC, reimbursed the congressman, paid his brother’s accounting firm, and paid his daughter a salary.”
Considering the way that the Ron Paul political machine has generated so much of its millions of dollars from small donors over the last half-decade, many of whom could hardly afford to give to a political campaign, it is shocking that this is how much of the money was apparently being spent. Many of the footsoldiers of the liberty movement have dedicated so much of their lives to supporting this one man, it’s reached such an unhealthy degree that they can no longer see the greater cause they are supposedly fighting for.
There is now a Libertarian governor with a resume far more impressive than that of Congressman Paul, standing up and reaching his hand out to them. And yet they largely ignore this amazing opportunity, fixated on a sad old man who has mesmerized them into attempting to etch his likeness onto everything from chocolate bars to a pub in New York City to discussion of building a statue of the man himself.
Described by some as one of the “biggest purveyors of nepotism in U.S. history,” the failure of Ron Paul to even consider passing the torch to Gary Johnson shows that he is now entirely focused on building his family’s political dynasty, and perhaps even trying to find a spot for his son Rand on the Republican ticket with Mitt Romney. Ron Paul’s supporters aren’t just promoting the message of liberty, they are worshiping a man who deserves very little of their praise.
Contrast this gross abuse of donor trust with how the Johnson campaign operates. Gary Johnson’s adult son, Erik Johnson, has been working day and night on the governor’s campaign and is getting paid no salary to do so. The governor even got a little choked up when he acknowledged his son’s sacrifice in a touching moment during his acceptance speech at the Libertarian Convention last month.
Gary Johnson is an avid skier, adventurer, and bicyclist. He has reached the highest peaks on four of the seven continents, including Mt. Everest. He’s built a successful private sector business, and been elected the chief executive of a large state for two highly productive terms, during which he vetoed more bills than the governors of the other 49 states combined. His libertarian credentials are unmatched, and yet today Rand Paul endorsed Mitt Romney for President. That alone should tell you everything you need to know about the Paul clan’s priorities.
Number one way to neuter the Johnson campaign: Attack the Paul campaign.
Ron Paul’s supporters have neutered themselves.
Speak for yourself, douchebag. Most Gary Johnson supporters voted for Ron Paul in the primaries. We’re not enemies.
When I first heard about Gary Johnson I was impressed. I registered republican to vote for Ron Paul but I was honestly surprised that I could actually support two of the candidates. The republican party could have either Ron Paul or Gary Johnson as the nominee but the powers of the party didn’t want that. I have always written in a candidate for president until this year. I will vote Gary Johnson. Even if Ron Paul is on the ballot I will vote for Johnson because in NY Obama will win the state. On the positive side of things it limits the amount of campaign ads I see on television.
With some of the recent breaking stories, which are very disappointing to me, I think I have finally decided that I no longer will want to write in Ron Paul’s name…. It really seems as if he and his team have given up. NOw if by some miracle, Ron Paul did win in Tampa, I will for sure vote for him….but with the likely outcome, I have officially decided that I will be bringing my vote to the Gary Johnson bid. I have thought long and hard about this, and it seems that this will be the biggest opportunity to send a message….. If we can get ALL Ron Paul supporters to vote for Gary Johnson, the election my prove to be the biggest step forward for the libertarian party, putting this party on the presidential map, and who know, maybe in the near future the presidential elections will become more of a three party race than ever before…… I would LOVE to see the libertarian party able to be a part of the big debates. Picture romney and obama standing there, saying the same ol sh** while Gary brings new light to the libertarians and opens doors for a new tomorrow.
Gary Johnson did not attack the Ron Paul campaign. But as a former Ron Paul supporter, I will.
Unfortunatly Dr. Paul has a history of walking off with the campaign funds like in 2008. We have been had once again folks!
This article is pure sour grapes. Ron Paul managed to grow a huge following with almost no positive press or TV. Where was Johnson? Is he computer illiterate or what?
Absofreaknlutely. This was a disgusting article and doesn’t do the Johnson campaign any favors.
Wow, this article is why so many people will not endorse a third party.
Uhh… Rand Paul has always been a Republican, he is not a Libertarian. …
I am a Ron Paul supporter who was active in the Ron Paul campaign in California. I agree with many points of this article. The campaign leader of my area was not paid a cent for his work. He took a 3 month leave of absence from his work to campaign full-time for Ron Paul. All our campaign materials came from local donations with no support from the official Ron Paul campaign. We were campaigning hard trying to outreach to voters while Jesse Benton focused on getting delegates in caucus states. With so much focus on Ron Paul we did not have the time and resources to back other pro-liberty candidates like Rick Williams, Al Phillips, etc.
No one has held a gun to the head of any Ron Paul supporter. We did it because we wanted to do it. Whining about not getting paid is not productive – it will only make you feel bad, so knock it off. It has been a GREAT ride and it’s not over until November. Together we have enlightened thousands, maybe millions, of people on the need for real change and a return to our Constitutional Republic. We can all be very proud of that! We can’t drop it now. The r3VOLution continues and IT won’t be over until this country has made a full recovery, with or without the Paul family. It’s up to us now.
I am so glad…that I am a Johnson supporter. I went from Paul to Johnson, because Johnson is gonna be on the ballots, likely 49 or all 50. And he is finally starting to get media coverage. Was on The Daily Show this week…now on MSNBC this morning in a few hours and Saturday at Noon. I just wish more Paul supporters would make the switch like I did. I am grateful for Paul…without Paul, I would not know who Johnson is.
This is no time for bickering amongst ourselves. We have a Muslim Marxist illegal alien in the White House who must be defeated.
Libertarians for Romney, Libertarian Party supporters of Gary Johnson, even the Ron (Rand) Paul people need to all come together and defeat Obama!
If you live in a safe Red State, why not vote for Gary? The more votes for the Libertarian Party, the more incentive President Romney will have to move in a more libertarian direction.
If you’re a Libertarian who lives in a Swing State, (especially Ohio!!!, Colorado, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan), please vote for Mitt Romney.
If your concious bothers you, simply find a “vote buddy” in another State. The Dems did this in 2004 with Kerry and Nader. Vow to trade your vote with your Vote Buddy.
Let’s all work together to get this Islamo-Fascist loving Socialist out of the White House!
Eric Dondero, I already know who and what you are (and anyone who doesn’t can use Google). I’m sorry Ron wasn’t interested enough in killing Muslims for your taste, but that’s your problem.
My vote belongs to me, not to Mitt Romney, not to the Republican party. Defeating Obama may be YOUR goal, but some of us are thinking longer term. If we vote for Romney against our own consciences, we’re telling the Republican leadership that they can count on us to reward them for breaking their own rules, insulting their own members, and using violence to silence ideas they don’t like. If we stick to our principles, we’re telling them that ignoring our concerns means they don’t get our votes. It may hurt in the short term, but it’s the right choice for the long term. If they learn to earn our votes, they might learn to earn others’ votes as well.
If Ron Paul isn’t on the ballot, I’ll vote for Johnson. Anybody who wants to stop wasting American lives and money overseas, who supports fiscal responsibility, who respects individual rights – I’ll vote for that candidate, regardless of party affiliation.
JD, great! Vote for Gary Johnson. I’m supporting him too. Been a Johnson guy for months, years even.
I’m just asking nicely for Libertarians who live in Ohio (and other swing states, but mainly Ohio, which will decide the election), to vote for Romney.
Oh, and as far as “killing Muslims,” it was they, who killed us first. 3,000 of our fellow countrymen died on September 11, 2001. Or, have you forgotten?
Going to type this again, and hope it posts.
The Muslim world and Islamic followers did not attack us…19 hijackers, many of Egytian and Saudi descent, supported by Saudi radicals were behind the bombings.
I know many Muslims in and around Toledo, OH. None dress in full burka or covered faces. A few do cover hair in public. Its a tradition, not so much a law.
Now, in countries far far away, yes those things are happening. But not here. Lets end the wars. War is NOT libertarian. War is force, and therefore anti-libertarian. Defense is libertarian.
“Oh, and as far as “killing Muslims,” it was they, who killed us first. 3,000 of our fellow countrymen died on September 11, 2001. Or, have you forgotten?”
Eric, not all Muslims were responsible for 9/11. @_@ Bigot.
Not a SINGLE Muslim was responsible for 9-11 ( not even à SINGLE Muslim name in the fateful planes passengers list on 9-11 )
You DO know who are being the 9-11 mass murder , the masonic Novus ordo Seclorum agenda, the operational PNAC ( Project for a New American Century ), the Eretz Israël agenda and their NECESSARY casus belli to launch all these wars highly planified and desired by The Terrorists-You-Know-Too-Well!
You can chose denial and delusion too if truth is too hard for you to bear.
The rest of the world is not daydreaming.
If you’re calling me a “bigot,” at least have the guts to post under your name, instead of Anonymous.
Question, were the 19 hijackers who killed 3000, bigoted against Americans?
“Question, were the 19 hijackers who killed 3000, bigoted against Americans?”
Of course they were, and it would be bigoted to assume everyone born in the same country as they were likewise hates Americans/wants us to die.
Oh yeah and it was muslims who controlled demolished the Third WTC 7 ( u know that tower untouched by plane the TERRORISTS behind the mass murder on 9-11 don’t want to talk about )
. Keep daydreaming and being delusional while real criminals amok in high places in Washington, London and Tel Aviv.
Umm, question for ya. Why do you post under a bogus name? What’s the matter? You don’t have a name? You have to use some crap like “The World knows why”? That’s not a name.
If you’re going to offer opinions on the internet do so under your real name, or just don’t post at all.
It wasn’t Muslims who did 9/11. That’s just so you know. And NOTHING is going to make the Idiot-In-chief operate in a more Libertarian way. He simply needs to be removed from office and tried for Treason and war crimes. For that reason, I am not even taking him into consideration in this election. He’s DONE.
Don’t play games with your vote, people. vote your conscience for once. Be true to your own principles. It is entirely like that I will write in Ron Paul. We’ll see how this thing plays out after we flood Tampa with Ron Paul supporters.
What a maroon! Vote the evil of 2 lessers! BWAAAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
A vote for Romney is a vote for 8 more years of Obama’s policies.
Wait. We should vote for somebody we dont’ want in the white house, to make sure somebody else we don’t want in the white house doesn’t stay in the white house. Brilliant!
OK. sarcasm mode off. No, we WON’T vote for Romney. He doesn’t “deserve” our vote, despite what you may think any more than Obama does. Most of us don’t see any significant difference between the two.
There are already a number of Libertarians and Republicans who are participating in Vote Switch 2012 (Romney voters offer to vote for Gary Johnson in safe Republican Red states, and Johnson voters offer to vote for Romney in swing states.)
If you don’t wish to participate, fine. Nobody’s twisting your arm. We’re merely asking politely.
In 2004 I believe I remember reading tens of thousands of Dems and Leftie 3rd party types participated in Kerry/Nader vote swap. We hope to match those numbers at Libertarian Republican.
Libertarian Republican is an oxymoron. It can’t exist. Being Republican, as we have seen over and over, means more war spending and more intrusive laws regarding our personal lives.
We can’t survive Obama or Romney. And vote switching only assures that the message will be lost. Romney will not bend towards were libertarian philosophy. He will continue the big government stances of the GOP.
More war spending on what? To fight Islamo-Naziism? Damned right. That’s about as libertarian as you can possibly get.
What’s not libertarian: Muslim Sharia Law
Women being forced to wear ugly black burkas from head to toe, marijuana smokers jailed for life, gays hung from lampposts, alcohol and gambling outlawed, free speech banned.
Please explain how giving into our Islamo-Nazi enemies and surrendering to Sharia is “libertarian”?
Who said anything about giving into some imaginated enemy you are creating in your mind. Islamo-Nazi’s? Really?
Romney supports the NDAA which allows for detention of US citizens. He approves of new restrictions on protests around government officials and offices. He approves of bombing and wars without congressional approval.
I think you don’t quiet get Libertarianism. There is thing called the Constitution, and power is derived from that, which we have given to the government. Not the other way around.
This bashing of Ron Paul and his supporters is pointless. Even Gary Johnson himself said on a recent segment on the Daily Show that he was much like Ron Paul. Liberty minded individuals want change, and they look to the track record over the past 20+ years of Ron Paul for validation that they are putting their trust in a man that will vote for liberty consistently.
Ron Paul is not going to be the Republican nominee, but Gary Johnson will be on the ballot. Gary’s got my vote. In the meantime, I will be reaching out to my fellow Ron Paul supporters with a friendly handshake, telling them of the virtues of Gary Johnson, rather than telling them what a mistake it was to donate to the Ron Paul campaign.
Well put Dan. I totally agree and I want to see Johnson in the White House!
Notice how every GOP nominee Mr. Rittberg supports with a “Libertarians for…” committee of one. He was probably doing “Libertarians for Dole” too back in the day. Pretty soon you have to ask yourselves what’s the point? If the LP nominee is never going to receive your support (and granted Johnson is probably the most qualified they’ve ever had) then who the hell are you kidding? To draw attention to yourself in this manner is pretty pathetic but to each his own I guess. Someone doesn’t like being just another GOP drone.
Maybe I should start a “Liberals for Romney” group. I could get some publicity for that…
I voted for Libertarian Harry Browne for President in 1996.
I was all prepared to vote for Bob Barr and my friend Wayne Root in 2008 until that fateful day in early Sept. when McCain stunningly picked Sarah Palin for VP. So, I ended up voting for McCain/Palin.
I live in Texas. I’ll be voting for Libertarian Gary Johnson for President in 2012.
(I voted David Bergland in ’84 – a big mistake, I should’ve voted for Reagan, Ron Paul/Andre Marrou in ’88, Perot in ’92, Bush, Bush 2000 & 2004).
I was not the Chairman of Libertarians For Bush in 2004. That was Beth & Billy Soloe (prominent Marijuana activists) of Indiana along with Co-Chair Sam Wells of Oregon.
I am not the current Chairman of Libertarians for Romney. That’s Dan Starr of Pima, Arizona.
More ants are attracted with sugar, than salt.
Austin, despite the variety of shortcomings of the Ron Paul campaign(s), we’ve been in it proudly this whole time because of the obvious honesty and conviction of the man himself as evidenced by his decades-long dedication to what would otherwise be irrelevant issues.
I for one am now seriously considering campaigning for Governor Johnson, however the thought of working with people with the overt arrogance you’ve displayed in this article is not particularly appealing…
Take a cue from the Governor, you’ll serve the cause better.
First off, I’m not directly associated with the Johnson campaign in any way… I am speaking only for myself.
Secondly, I’m not really concerned about luring the Ron Paul people into the Gary Johnson camp with sugar. I was a supporter of Governor Johnson’s months ago and heard every manner of possible condescending comment and pompous proclamation from members of the Ron Paul Cult.
Now that their deity has been revealed as a fraud, a few are starting to wise up and open themselves to other possibilities. I guess that’s a good thing, but it doesn’t really impact me one way or another.
If Romney is the nominee, my vote goes to Gary Johnson. Rand had the potential of garnering he fathers supporters for a serious 2016 presidential bid. But his vote FOR economic sanctions against Iran, and now his endorsement of warmongering Romney has quelled any potential support from me. I see no indication that Rand is truly fighting for Freedom & Liberty. I would imagine the majority of Ron Paul supporters will eventually feel the same way. I like Gary Johnson, A LOT. His two term NM governorship is most impressive. But……can Gary gain the support of the Freedom Movement? Can he carry the torch and lead us? I pray that he can.
“Warmongering”? Is one to assume them you are a friend of Islamo-Fascism? You’re just fine with Islamists taking over the United States and imposing Sharia Law?
Tell us please, how is it libertarian for our wives and girlfriends to be forced to wear ugly black burkas from head to toe? You do realize under Sharia Law marijuana smokers will be jailed for life? They hang homosexuals by the nearest lampposts in Iran and in Saudi Arabia they cut off their privates, and feed them to the dogs, that’s before they slice off their heads. Prostitutes are stoned to death throughout the Muslim world. Rock and Pop music are banned in Indonesia. Alcohol and gambling are now being outlawed in Egypt, Tunisia and Lebanon.
Tell us please, what’s “libertarian” about Islam?
So, where in the US is this happening?
That is the point. If its not happening here, why does it matter. If the people wish to revolt in those countries, let them. Its not our concern.
That is libertarianism. Libertarianism is not intervention at all costs.
And as I mentioned in this thread above…Muslims I know in THIS country are not as you mention. So what are you afraid of? Or is this just a general hatred for Islam?
Islam is an Alien Far Far Far Away from Babylon. Apostle John ( à real Apostle of Jesus among his 12 Apostle not a False “13th Apostle” like Paul ) called Islam in Revelation ” THE WOMAN THAT FLED TO THE DESERT and the 12 Imams of Islam and Muhammad’s ( Peace Be Upon Him ) 12 Stars on Islam’s Forehead.
Another woman , a Whore sitting on Babylon-The West ( the 10 powerful nations dominating the world) is the so-called “Christian” Churches ( in reality Mithraic and Paulian) sitting on the West.
This is the very reason WHY the Babylon ( The West ) hates The alien Woman that FLED to the Desert.
Truth Will Set You Free!
Ever been to Dearborn, Michigan? Hamtramck? How ’bout northern New Jersey? North Philadelphia? Minneapolis, MN? Parts of northern Virginia? Muslim enclaves are not even being established in some parts of Tenneessee. That’s right! Tenn-e-friggin’-see.
Take your head out of the sand. They’re here. And they are tryting to subjugate us under Sharia Law right before our very eyes.
If you are a supporter of the libertarian philosophy, if you are a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, or if, like many, you have finally woken up and realized that the GOP and the Democrats are in the pockets of Wall Street-then you only have one real choice at this point-and that choice is Gary Johnson.
If you take a stance that you have to “come together” behind MItt Romney to “defeat Obama” then you are simply continuing the demonstrably failed policies of the past solely because of a personal dislike of Mr. Obama. Obama. While Mr. Obama has, by all measures, been a fairly poor President, Mitt Romney will not be any better. He has NO actual plans or platform (other than blaming Obama for everything). He certainly has NO firm set of beliefs to guide him-other than his political opportunism. He certainly cannot be relied on to stick to a position-on ANYTHING-given his history. Voting for Romney, when there is a real, viable alternative for change, and a TRUE opportunity, finally, to elect a third party candidate who is NOT beholden to Wall Street and special interests, or the GOP and Republican “leaders”, is simply continuing the errors of the past decades, and supporting the current, failed, two party system of US government. Regardless of HOW you feel about Mr. Obama-the TRUE choice here should be Mr. Johnson. And if ALL of the libertarians and ALL of the Ron Paul supporters joined together-Gary Johnson WOULD have a real chance to sway independents and win this election. Don’t let this chance pass us by simply because you hate Barack Obama or want to “join with” the GOP behind Mitt Romney. This is the best chance the libertarian party has EVER had to make a difference. Don’t blow it.
Obama a “fairly poor president”? Are you insane? The guy’s a flaming Marxist. He lied about his Muslim background. He lied through his crooked teeth about not being born in Kenya. And you have the audacity to call him, “well, golly geez, he’s not really that good…”
He is the worst president in the entire history of the United States of America. We have a bonafide enemy of our Nation sitting in the White House, and you call him “not that bad”?
Wow…lied about his Muslim background? Now I see what this is about.
Too often I see Tea Partiers go for this line and the birther line. If you were so concerned with his policies as you were with conspiracies, maybe we could accomplish a greater task, that being getting Libertarians (real libertarians, not Republicans hijacking the term) into office from the ground up.
I’m a Libertarian. 25 Year Libertarian activist, former member of the Libertarian National Committee, founder of the Republican Liberty Caucus, former Senior Aide US Cong. Ron Paul (6 years).
Yeah, Tea Party is libertarian. But we Libertarians were Tea Party before the Tea Party was cool.
Tea Party advocates for war…war is not libertarian. I think you don’t understand full well Libertarian philosophy.
But not everyone does.
It is good that we have common thoughts and agreements. However, bowing down to the GOP is not the way to get anything done.
Nathan, there’s no conspiracy involved.
Two weeks ago Breitbart.com uncovered a publisher’s booklett from 1991 that clearly listed author Barack Hussein Obama as “born in Kenya.”
Obama did not revise the booklett until the year 2007. If it’s a “conspiracy” as you claim, how do you explain the publisher’s booklett? Either Obama was lying in his book author’s bio or he was “born in Kenya.”
And the publisher stated that was incorrect. I have had biographical information mislabeled in numerous publications. One said I was a law school graduate (as I was pre-law at the time), and one listed me as being in the ABA, even though I had not completed law studies nor taken the bar exam.
If there is proof that he was born in Kenya, then its a different story. The article on Breitbart even stated, in the first two paragraphs, that they were not stating it was accurate, nor did they believe it to be true.
The publisher lied through her teeth. She knew she was busted. And she protected Obama. Simple as that.
The booklett existed from 1991 with zero changes all the way up til 2007 when Obama started running for President. Then the “born in Kenya” part was taken out.
You really think that was a “mistakte?”
Ask yourself this question. Can you name a single Obama relative on his father’s side who is not a Muslim? Currently living in Kenya, or deceased. (Or his Auntie Zeytuni or Uncle Obango both living here illegally here in the US.)
I don’t know why the focus of this story is getting into “bashing” RP supporters etc. Ron paul did his job as a political candidate quite well. What should be discussed is whether the Ron Paul campaign spent our money wisely. As of March, they spent $496,461 per delegate earned. Ron Paul received 1,079,753 votes for a cost-per-vote total of $30.35. Argue if you will that the libertarian message is a harder sell and that the GOP establishment put roadblocks along the way, but supporters and critics alike credit Ron Paul for having the hardest-working and most dedicated volunteers. There was at least a partial trade-off of our troops vs. their machine. Paying someone, with no credible history of campaign management, nearly $600,000 to honcho a $35,000,000 political corporation is what should be the point.
Eric Donderhead is a jewish infiltraitor and a warmongering Israel Firster.
hey Donderhead…Obama is indeed a Marxist, but he is not a “Muslim”….How can he be an atheist be a Muslim?
go chock on a bagel with lox will ya.
Yes, I am Jewish. (Also Italian).
I guess that means Ms. King would like me to march onto the gas chambers.
Jews are smarter these days Ms. King. We’re a tough group. The Islamo-Fascists can try all they want. They nuke Tel Aviv, Israel will nuke Medina, Mecca, Tehran, and Cairo within an hour.
It’s not so easy to send us to the gas chambers any more. We fight back!
To Eric Dondero:
The US is nowhere is even close to being in danger of taken over by Islamic Fascists.
In fact, Muslims are only about 1% of the US population, still extremely outnumbered by Christians!
As for ultra-conservative laws in the US, they’re way more likely to be pushed by conservative Christians (who outnumber Muslims in the US by a Million to One ratio)!
The R’s have learned the best way to get people to mindlessly follow you is to instill in them a sense of fear. Well, the D’s do it too, just not as effectively. You can see proof of it in this thread. Dig out some closet boogeyman, make everyone afraid, then present yourself / your part as THE ONLY DEFENSE AGAINST IT!
It’s not ‘R’s that are following the rise of Islamism, it’s libertarians.
It’s Geert Wilders, Pamela Geller, Spencer, Horowitz, Frank Gaffney, Brian Lilley, Pat Condell, Brigitte Gabriel, Mark Steyn. Only Geller and Steyn are even remotely “Republican.” Wilders is a flaming Dutch libertarian. Condell is an Ayn Rand atheist.
“There is now a Libertarian governor with a resume far more impressive than that of Congressman Paul”
Austin, this is not even remotely true. There is more to a “resume” than getting elected governor twice. Paul has spawned/vitalized a whole political and intellectual movement that will live on after he retires. Johnson can make no where near such a claim.
What he’s created won’t live on to any great benefit. He’s built a cult of personality that worships only the name Paul.
If his ‘movement’ lives on it will be much like the Church of Scientology I referenced above. They’re doing quite well financially today, but their waking moments are spent being fixated on a man who died in 1986.
Part of Paul’s “resume” is his ability to build and unite a coalition of libertarians (many very doctrinaire) and right-wing populists. Who else has done this as effectively as Paul? Who else could hope to? Johnson has no shot, for many reason, but partially because he thinks it is OK for a mother to kill her kid. This is simply a non-starter for many.
And Ron Paul thinks it’s okay for Palestinians to slaughter Israelis. America has no interest in protecting the one single Western outpost for freedom we have in the Middle East says Ron Paul.
If Paul was a little more consistent, standing up for Israel, than perhaps he’d have more credibility on the abortion issue.
You seem to be forgetting that what goes on between Israel and her neighbors is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. Israel can take care of itself, and has said so recently. You seem to forget our meddling over there only makes matters worse. Calm down, stop fear- and warmongering, and focus on issues that matter, or at least actually exist in reality.
Obama’s not a Muslim Manchurian Candidate. He’s just another crappy Democrat president. Romney’s policies, once he’s in office, are more than likely going to be just as bad.
And you seem to be forgetting that the United States of America is the leader of Western Civilization. We lose Israel, we lost the last outpost of Western Civilization in the Middle East.
We’ve already lost formerly Christian Pro-American Lebanon. You want to throw Israel to the lions too?
You want pure Islamo-Naziism from Tehran to Casablanca? Muslim Brother, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Al Qaeda controlling everything in South Asia and North Africa?
Will that make you and your lovely wife and kids sleep better at night? Ahmadinijad having nukes. That will make you more comfy in that small town American home of yours?
You think the campaign funds weren’t well-spent? Then maybe Austin Cassidy can remind us when the last time an ideological libertarian amassed several hundred delegates in a major presidential race was.
It’s not “severaly hundred.” Actual number is 137, 1 short of New Gingrich’s total.
Ron Paul supporters have a way of seriously exaggerating RP’s vote totals.
“It’s not “severaly hundred.” Actual number is 137, 1 short of New Gingrich’s total.”
According to AP, I assume? They’ve already had to adjust their numbers because their projections were off, and most states have yet to hold a convention.
No, AP is a bunch of leftwing Pro-Ron Paul propogandists. The liberal media will jump through hoops to protect a fellow anti-war/Pro-Islamist. You can’t trust the AP, SFGate, NY Times, WaPo, HuffPo, Daily Beast, they’re all in the tank for Paul.
i’ve been saying gary johnson all along! i didn’t do the rp thing, but no one wants to listen to me about gary johnson. maybe now….
Obama will be re-elected and the establishment is fine with that. The U.S. political system is evil and full of evil people
The Democrat Party USA is evil. Not the US Political System.
There, fixed it for ya.
Republican Party is just as bad as the Dems. Your “correction” left out half of the equation.
Let’s see now:
Democrats = anti-free market, pro-nanny-state, pro-Islamist
Republicans = pro-free market, anti-nanny-state and anti-Islamist
Which Party is Pro-Freedom again? And which Party is Pro-Fascist/Communist?
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Gov Johnson should seriously consider asking Ron Paul to be his VP running mate!
That would never happen because Gary Johnson’s running mate is a former California Judge named Jim Gray. And because Ron Paul and his family would not be able to personally profit from it.
Ron Paul is good a grabbing a few issues important to young people especially as emblems of liberty – antiwar, civil liberties and the Fed (read inflation/debt) especially, drug legalization and other govt regulation issues too. He pushes them so well you hardly notice those states right and anti-abortion detours. Johnson is still fumbling about trying to figure out how to appeal to that audience; partially he just doesn’t quite understand the whole philosophy so can’t project his belief out there. (Heard his definition of nonaggression principle lately?) Just grab Paul’s message, repeat his speeches, and hire some of his people, and put your own spin on it. Why re-invent the wheel?? With Rand Paul endorsing Romney, a lot of Paul people will be looking for an outlet for the hard core message that Paul’s instilled in them.
Hey Carol, there’s a report this morning out of Afghanistan. 7 young girls gassed by the Taliban. Their crime? Attending a public school.
Don’t you claim to be some sort of “feminist” women’s rights person?
Why the silence on women’s rights when it comes to Muslim men trampling on the rights on women and girls?
How do you feel on the burka issue Carol? Do you support Muslim men being able to tell women they have to cover up from head to toe?
Muslim honor killings which mostly target young Muslim women?
How about the recent spate of rapes by Muslim immigrant men, mostly Pakistanis, of young British white women?
Why are you and your lefty libertarians pals silent about such issues?
Oopsie, I plum forget. Muslims causing violence against the West, Muslim men trampling on civil rights of women, doesn’t quite fit the template now does it?
The comment that hits home most is how people who could barely afford to give anything gave to the Ron Paul campaign. I gave money to the campaigns of Ron Paul and Rand Paul, and I worked for Rand Paul’s election to the US Senate.
I am now an official Gary Johnson supporter, and a supporter of whoever runs against Rand Paul. “Take Back Kentucky” is stunned over his endorsement (betrayal of principle) of Willard Mittington Romney, and you can believe there will be a challenge to Rand in the Kentucky Republican Primary.
Cat, Ron Paul endorsed George W. Bush for President in 2000 down in Texas at two different events. Grabbed the mic, and enthusiastically backed Bush at one event in Corpus Christi in front of hundreds of people. I was there.
He didn’t back his old friend Harry Browne that year.
Are you going to disown Ron Paul like you’re doing to Rand Paul cause he backed Bush over Browne?
And let me tell you, he did it for pure political expediency. Bush and his Texas partners had swung some serious political support towards Paul in the late 1990s. Without it, there’s no way in hell he would have ever won, or kept that south Texas congressional seat.
Little known factoid. We were in deep trouble running against Lefty Morris, Democrat, for congress in 1996. The race was a dead heat.
Karl Rove came in at the last minute and rustled up some serious $$$ for the Paul Campaign. Tom DeLay did, as well. They also convinced skeptical Victoria Conservatives to rally around Paul. Without the help of Rove and DeLay, Ron would have never won that race in 1996.
Eric Dondero, Campaign Coordinator
Ron Paul for Congress, 1995/96
I don’t think it’s fair to call the whole Ron Paul movement a cult. Take a look at Rand’s facebook. He’s been unliked by thousands of people in the last 24 hours, and comments are overwhelmingly accusing him of selling out. If he runs in 2016, there’s no way he’ll attract the fervent sort of supporters his father has. Should Ron endorse Romney, I think you’d see a similar reaction of disgust and disappointment. You certainly would from me.
The so called “Liberty” movement owes Paul a debt of gratitude. Incompetent and sketchy as his campaign may have been, he’s woken a lot of people up. I was supporting McCain until I found out about Paul in the debates, which led me to research him and change my whole worldview. I supported him in both 2008 and 2012, and will now vote for Gary Johnson. But at least in my case, without that first introduction to Ron, I doubt I’d be anything but a party line Republican voter today. For that, I carry a debt of gratitude with him, and suspect I’m not the only one.
Paul’s not perfect, but regardless of whatever ulterior motives he may or may not have had, he kick started a movement that has already elected a few great congressman such as Justin Amash and countless local officials. I think as we look back in twenty years on his impact, we should at least give him some credit for that.
Ron did a great job on economics. He was absolutely horrible on foreign policy. An utter embarrassment to the libertarian movement. He’s now saddled us libertarians with the reputation of being weak girly-men, surrender-tarians in face of the greatest threat to our national security this Nation has faced in our 240 year history: Islamo-Fascism.
And he gave us a tinge of 9/11 Trutherism to boot.
Ron Paul = 100% outstanding on economics: The absolute worse foreign policy views you could ever imagine.
Not wanting to waste the lives of our friends and families on pointless wars that only inspire more aggression makes me a weak girly-man or surrender-tarian? The Islamo-Fascist threat you keep harping on is just the latest bogeyman held up by the military industrial complex so that they can keep raking in the dough. Ask yourself this: Even if the threat is as great as you think, why on Earth would we occupy these countries? Why not just carpet bomb them until they have no possible method of fighting back?
You do know that the Crusades are over, right?
Umm, no. Have you been to Europe lately?
It’s gone from a fantastic libertine paradise, to an ugly morose, gloomy Islamist-leaning continent in the space of less than 20 years. It’s horrendouse what’s happening to our eastern outposes of Western Civilization – Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, France, Denmark even the UK.
Wake up! Islamism is on the rise. They’re already 7% of France’s population. They’re killing Jews (Mohammed Mehra) in France. They’re raping native Brit women in the UK. They’re beating up Danes in the streets of Copenhagen.
And you see there and talk about some made up term like “Military Industrial Complex.”
Your ignorance is downright frightening.
“And you see there and talk about some made up term like “Military Industrial Complex.””
What? The term “military-industrial complex” is a term which has been used by academics for decades; see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex. It refers to the Pentagon, military contractors, and whichever industries may benefit uniquely from US foreign policy, among other things. It’s a libertarian issue, too, because it involves out-of-control spending as well as breaches of government authority.
Is it an abstraction? Of course. It’s a concept, not a formal institution, and you can feel free ; but it’s a lot more real than your delusionary fears of Muslims taking over the entire country.
So, you call fear of a people who initiated the worst attack on American soil in 240 years, killing 3,000 innocent civilians “irrational.”
Whoosh. I hate to see what you’d call an attack on Americans that killed 10,000 or 20,000. If a nuke from some Muslim nation killed 100,000 in Philly, Atlanta, L.A., Chicago or Houston, you’d probably call it a “walk in the park,” or a nice outdoor picnic.
Nothing to fear… Nah, just because 3,000 of your fellow countrymen died at the hands of the Muhammedans, nothing at all to fear. Move along now… Just move along…
After hearing Rand Paul Endorse Mitt Romminie, I will be casting my vote for libertarian nominee Gary Johnson , Even if this provides Obama with his second term, at least it wont be Mitt, the disenfranchised american people will not stand by for much longer, when everyone in the politics world fails to provide equality and freedom.. the people who believed in the message of Ron Paul, understand that freedom is not just about ONE person, the liberty movement and educating the people was always the goal, those people are taking over the party , and the minds of the world one by one, the american revolution did not come overnight, convincing people that taxation without representation, did not come easy , changes in views take decades, lifetimes to accomplish, as the old generations and old ways of thinking die, just look at the women’s movement, the civil liberties movement, and the gay and lesbian movement, the freedom movement will come, and it won’t be without sacrifice of many others before you or I, there will be casualties, what are you willing to give for freedom ? people threw away their lives, just so you can be here today, are you willing to give your life for those ahead of you? its not that easy to live free and die trying..
Well, guess that makes you a Lefty, and not a Libertarian.
Cheer up. 99% of Ron Paul supporters are leftists who came into the GOP through Moveon.org and Daily Kos to use the Paul campaign to create chaos in Republican ranks.
You’re just another Michael Moore/Cindy Sheehan/Code Pink leftist Obama flunkie.
I like attacking people and calling them names, but over allowing women to vote and blacks to vote, personal liberties with their own bodies, without imposing force on others? I never even heard of those sites, or care to know who came from where of RP supporters..
You’re just one eric dondero, sanctimonious fool, mad you don’t have Micheal Moore’s fame and fortune that has come from manipulation media…
I would love to cheer up the many families who are bankrupt due to unregulated FED decisions, the ones who lost their children and family in the polices of the republicans and democrats, or should i just say the oligarch party what position is that ? its neither left right , top or bottom… its whoever has the most money to to bend you over, and you better take it like the american man you wish you were..
Scared of Muslim’s are we ? you have better things to worry about like the baby boomer’s hippy children taking your tax money to smoke pot in their basement and have sex with who knows how many people to spread HIV and herpes of the mouth, so they can get birth control for free..
Thanks for that. As I suspected, another Lefty infiltrator for Ron Paul.
I really wish you leftists would stop using our term “libertarian.” You’ve got a whole host of words to choose from: Fascist, Nazi, Communist, Socialist, Fabian Socialist, Syndicalist, Trade Unionist, or just plain old smelly Lefty scumbag.
Why do you have to pollute our libertarian word with your authoritarian filth?
There is no difference between Romney and Obama. Neither deserves our support.The lesser of two evils is still evil. Ron Paul should not be associated with either. Ron Paul should run with Ventura or Kucinich. If he is a Libertarian,OK – if not OK also.
Of course, are there fair elections in the USA anyway, or is Stalin’s rule in place here also? “It is not who vote that counts, it is who counts the votes that count.”
“The so called “Liberty” movement owes Paul a debt of gratitude. Incompetent and sketchy as his campaign may have been, he’s woken a lot of people up. I was supporting McCain until I found out about Paul in the debates, which led me to research him and change my whole worldview. I supported him in both 2008 and 2012, and will now vote for Gary Johnson. But at least in my case, without that first introduction to Ron, I doubt I’d be anything but a party line Republican voter today. For that, I carry a debt of gratitude with him, and suspect I’m not the only one.”
Agreed. There would be no Sen. Rand Paul had Ron not run for President. There would be no Liberty Movement. At the same time, we made the movement. It was there, it just needed something to gather and rally and that was Ron’s Presidential’s campaigns. Maybe they did benefit his family? Who knows? But they did a lot more as well. And now is the time to move on from that, to grow bigger than the Ron Paul “family”.
Yes, an enormous debt on spreading good cheer on free market economics and drug legalization. But all the good he did on the economic and civil liberties side, is completely drowned out by his horrendous, truly horrible views on foreign policy.
Ron Paul has saddled us libertarians with 9/11 Trutherism, weakness on foreign policy, quasi support for America’s Islamist enemies, and surrender-tarianism.
In the end he’s a 50%-er. He’s 100% right on 50% of the issues, and 100% wrong on the other 50%.
Have you read this?
A group of Delegates, 675 to be exact, make up the Conservative Republican Union and are endorsing Robby Wells for President. I am trying to get them to understand it would make more sense to have those Delegates vote for Ron Paul at the Convention and along with his 500 minimum Delegates would give Ron Paul the nomination. Robby Wells could always be Ron Paul’s VP.
Remember that Ron Paul is the MOST Conservative politician in 75 years so his number of 500 may even be low!!
Go to the page below and comment on my post if you agree.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Conservative-Republican-Union/265025265573
The rabid, Israeli-firster, warmongering calls-himself-but-is quite-obviously-not-a-Libertarian’s incessant warbling on this thread not withstanding, I think there have been some good points brought up . I have retained my GOP registration for now on seven years solely to be able to vote for RP in the primaries. I have to admit I’m astonished and angered by some of the issues brought up in this article. I thought RP was above the petty nepotism thing and I donated to his campaign twice, but now wonder why. Rand supporting O’Romney at this point is a total slap in the face; he is obviously as willing to sell out his father’s principles as he was to sell out the liberty and tea party movements when he got elected to the Senate. He’s no better than any of the other politicians as far as I can tell. I will happily vote for Gary Johnson as I have twice already for Gov, knowing full well he has little to no chance. Robme and Obeyme are just two sides of the same coin of a false left/right paradigm both puppets who dance to the strings of their corporate/bankster masters; both will continue destroying our constitution, both will continue imperial murder abroad for the benefit of their masters, and both will continue to spend non-existant money until the currency attains it’s true value: zero.
At this point, voting Libertarian is simply a vote for your own soul.
Hey Chris, how ’bout “Western Civilization Firster”?
I support Israel, like I support our fellow Westerners in the UK, Germany, France, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Canada even Puerto Rico and Guam.
Israel is OUR ONLY Western enclave in the Middle East. Do you really wish to see them anihilated? Wiped off the face of the earth?
Israel has pizza parlos, bikini beaches, bars, taverns, pubs, Hollywood cinemas, McDonalds, fast cars, and hot babes.
You really want to tell me with a straight face that if all of that is eliminated, if the land of Israel is turned into another Muslim hellhole, you’d be just fine with that?
No, I do not wish to see Israel wiped out; I wish to see them quit their oppression, land-stealing, settlement-building, bulldozing, olive-grove destroying, murdering ways and work towards a comprehensive two-state solution with the Palestinians. But I also know that they won’t do that; Israel doesn’t want peace, they want land, they’re the “chosen people”, don’t ya know.
Wow, you really are a Nazi. I’m not surprised. NeoNazis like the Stormtroopers infiltrated the Ron Paul campaign. And Ron didn’t do nearly enough to denounce them and weed them out.
And right here, we have a real live Hitler love.
Chris Cormier ‘eh? Never heard of you before. But it’s a shame that Austin Cassidy allows Stormtrooper Nazis who want the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people on this otherwide fine website.
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I’m a Gary Johnson supporter who voted for Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012 primary. I don’t like to quickly judge based on an article like this. Regarding Jesse Benton how much does a typical campaign manager get paid? What was his performance? Was he the campaign manager in 2008? Benton’s salary seems high, but relative to what? Suppose in 2008, John Smith, as the campaign manager brought a total of $5M donation, and in 2012, Benton as the campaign manager brought a total of $15M donation, then it was a good investment. I’m a supporter of free market, and if $500k brings a high-quality campaign manager, then so be it. I know nothing about Jesse Benton, so he may or may not have been overpaid.
Jesse Benton is Ron Paul’s grandson-in-law. He has no campaign experience other than working for people with the last name Paul.
http://www.scribd.com/StinkyMumbler/d/93961174-Who-is-Jesse-Benton
Benton also ran the 2008 Paul campaign – he cannot claim responsibility for the grass roots enthusiasm of RP voters/donors. Critics and supporters alike in 2008 said Paul campaign successes (mainly impressive fund raising totals) bubbled up from the bottom – Benton just caught the wave in time, and has ben riding it comfortably ever since.
The Paulistas are akin to the Tea party movement: there is no top down infrastructure. There is no Jesse Benton-type Tea Party fund raiser and nor is/was there a Jesse Benton Paul campaign fund raiser.
The Ron Paul movement is one of the unique milestones in American politics – truly based on issues and grass roots energy. Ron Paul is the spark that lit the fire – and, although there are some followers who can be dubbed a cult of the personality – the Paul constituency will continue long after he is gone. Unfortunately the Ron Paul corporate logo will remain in Benton’s hands. That will dampen and divide the Paulistas.
I am grateful for what Ron Paul has done to raise awareness to the libertarian movement. That being said, his campaign, given the amount of money and how large of a following it has, has failed big time. How Ron Paul became the torch bearer of the libertarian movement demonstrates how utterly fragile our movement is, and has become the proverbial “putting one’s eggs in one basket”. It has to come from multiple people from multiple organizations. The GOP, the Libertarian Party, independent libertarians,and even some in the Democratic Party. I will proudly vote for Gary Johnson in November, who isn’t a perfect messenger of liberty, but is a damn good one. Paul’s campaign certainly demonstrates he is far from perfect as well.
Actually, Gary might very well be a “perfect” Libertarian candidate, or about as close to one as you could possibly get.
I’ve been active with the Libertarian Party since 1985. I’m a huge Libertarian Party history buff. I was friends with Roger MacBride personally. I worked for Ron Paul for 12 years.
Simply put, there has never been a better Libertarian Presidential ticket in the history of the Party.
Ed Clark/David Koch in 1980 was possibly closest.
But Johnson/Gray beats:
Hospers/Nathan – 1972
MacBride/Bergland – 1976
Ed Clark/David Koch – 1980 (922,000 votes)
Bergland/Lewis – 1984 (the very worst LP pres. campaign ever!)
Paul/Marrou – 1988
Marrou/Lord – 1992
Harry Browne/Art Olivier – 1996
Browne – 2000
Badnarik/Canberra – 2004 (another horrible LP ticket)
Barr/Root – 2008 (best next to Clark/Koch with 525,000 votes)
I’d say top three tickets:
1. Johnson/Gray (I’m predicting 3 million votes)
2. Clark/Koch
3. Barr/Root
I’m a Democrat but I am disappointed with the inability of my party to push back hard against Republican obstructionism. In observing the political turmoil in this country, I have watched as the people of this nation allowed big-money interests and the interest in big money undermine the political system. Ron Paul’s candidacy is a case in point. Now that I’m seeking a principled and qualified candidate for President, I’m confident that I can support former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson. I’m impressed with him. I believe he is honest and principled and he upholds the Libertarian platform which I found closer to my own positions than I thought it would.
I supported Ron Paul as far as he put the libertarian brand out there & was the only game in town to do it & at least educate the People about liberty. But as a 20 year member of The Libertarian Party I knew that The One Party System of the R&D Party would never let him be their nomimee & I had my eye on Gov. Johnson as he was being courted by the LP since around 2000 as he is a 30 year card carrying & Dues paying Member of The LP & when he came home to The LP for our nomination I was A Supporter & Glad to see The Libertarian Party Put Up The Best POTUS Ticket The Not Only The LP Has ever fielded But also The Best & Most Constitutionalist Presidential Ticket of Johnson / Judge Jim Gray That our Nation Has Seen In The LAST 100 YEARS!!! So America what it going to be FREEDOM WITH Gary Johnson / Judge James Gray LIBERTARIAN 2012 AMERICAN REVOLUTION 2 LIVE FREE ! or TYRANNY with ROBAMNY & BACK TO FEUDALISM????
I was planning on voting for Ron Paul, regardless of whether or not he won the nomination, but after the sellout to Romney, I am definitely voting for Gary Johnson. How can anybody with a straight face say that Romney is a conservative or libertarian ? The guy has been more liberal than conservative for years and his daddy was part of the eastern establishment that opposed Barry Goldwater’s nomination in 1964 ! Gary is the closest thing in my mind to the legacy of Goldwater. He believes in individual liberty, yet is strong on national defense. As usual, liberal media doesn’t want us to know of somebody like Gary. Had I known of Gary sooner, he would’ve been my first choice.
He’s not a conservative, and that’s a good thing. Rather, he’s a fiscally conservative/socially moderate Republican. That doesn’t quite qualify for “libertarian-leaning,” but it most certainly qualifies for “friendly to libertarian views.” And that’s about the closest we are ever going to come to a real live libertarian in the White House in our lifetimes.
And who knows we might just get lucky and get Rubio or Fortuno as his VP.
The most significant difference between Johnson and Paul, and also the reason that Johnson did not get Rand’s endorsement, will not get the enthusiastic support of most Ron Paul supporters, and will not break 2% this election, is that Johnson is running as a Libertarian, and Ron Paul was running as a Republican.
I am one of the people who donated more than you might think I could afford to the Paul campaigns. I might end up voting for Johnson in November. But I won’t give him money or expend energy supporting him. What’s the point? There’s nothing to gain from it.
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New desperate GOP strategy. Lets promote Gary Johnson to try and drive a wedge into the Ron Paul voters to weaken their influence. We will not quit. Never. Ever.
Someone else that wants to tell us how to spend OUR money? Imagine that.
Its not about money, it’s about freedom and awakening people to certain ideas of peace. Don’t get bitter, it doesn’t do any good. Just spread the ideas of both these great men.
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